Why Evolution Makes No Sense Today- Article 2: Proving the Existence of God

Humans Are Not Special

Evolution adherents claim vehemently that evolution does not question the existence of God.  It simply states that people are merely a result of an ongoing mutation string that started with DNA-like strands which mutated to plants, to animals, to apes, to us.   Evolution says, specifically the speciation segment, that humans are nothing special.   We are simply another animal on earth.  We were not, in fact, created by a God who endowed us with the special thing we call a ‘soul’.  Evolution further explains the fact that every human culture evolved with a belief in God, spirits & souls as some necessary believe system that somehow ensures the survival of each of our respective eggs & sperms.  Somehow, our DNA demands a belief in God.

The fact is:  the theory of evolution, specifically the speciation portion, is inexorably mixed with a belief in God.  And not because of Christians either.  But because of the atheists who attempt to shove it down our throats through the indoctrination of our children.  Most Christians can co-exist with portions of the theory of evolution and most would even be ok with the idea of God using the speciation process (if it were ever proved in a satisfactory way) to create mankind.  But the offense comes when these atheists attempt to manipulate our children with their final conclusion:  God didn’t create you and therefore, you are not special.

Goat Rights = Human Rights

You are legally and morally the same as a goat.  You do not have natural dominion of the earth.  You are not its steward.  In fact, the very proponents of evolution who claim that there is no God are saying that Mother Earth is a real person and you are subject to her.  If you do anything to ‘hurt’ her, than you are a bad child and must be punished by law.  People should be good animals and get along with the other animals or we become nothing more than an infestation of the pristine Mother Earth.  And we owe her– not the other way around.

And where does that leave the mere humans?

Mother Earth Gives Life & Life Obeys Her Laws

Worshipers of a new God:  Mother Earth.   Being a ‘good’ human being is no longer defined by a righteous God, but by how well we treat Mother Nature.   And who will ensure that we are good children?  Why, her priests.  Those who brought her to power.   The ‘green’ czars, of course.  They will ensure that we all behave properly.  They will make and sell their green goods and we will buy them.  They will use laws, courts & jails to control us.  That they become wealthy beyond their wildest dreams while the rest of us lose our identity, our natural sovereignty of the Earth, our God given human rights and our wealth is only natural.  Those who rose Mother Earth up as a god should be rewarded.  It is only the natural evolution of man and earth.

But Evolution has nothing to do with God, see?

There are many such lapses of logic & hypocrisy.  Here are two of my very favorites:

This Just Happened Before Evolution Kicked in

1)  The theory of evolution pre-supposes life.  Only then does this theory kick in.  That is why evolutionists (especially those who love the speciation aspect of evolution) say that evolution is not about God.  Their theory only takes effect after life is officially created.  So.  Life ‘just happened to exist’.  They also invented a whole branch of science ( for cover), so that they can say they are ‘working on that part’.  I find it somewhat incredible that this ‘little detail’ is just fine and dandy with these scientists.  Life simply ‘was there’.  Then, and only then, does all this evolution stuff kick in.  A series of mutations (by definition ‘rare’, ‘not normal’, and ‘mistake’) that just happened over and over and over again and somehow ‘just drove accidentally toward’ intelligent life.   In perfect order.  In perfect science.  It resulted in the incredible thinking machine called ‘Man’ with the only known consciousness and self awareness of any animal on earth (and so far, in the universe).  With the ability to self sacrifice, create beauty and even question his own existence.  Through a simple, ‘non-designed’, self perpetuating process that ‘just existed’.  Remember, the forces that drove evolution also ‘just existed’.  Through a simple set of physical laws that ‘just  existed’.  Through a tiny number of physical elements (see the periodic chart) that also ‘just happened to exist’ at the time.

Is it just me, or is this a lot of ‘just happened to exist‘s?  And yet, so called lovers of FACT and LOGIC are fine enough with all these ‘just happened to exist’s to call it, not a theory, but a FACT.  And they ridicule anyone who says, “hey, isn’t that a lot of holes?” as too stupid to even have a conversation with. (thus, the flouncing)

Sean Carroll, famous theoretical cosmologist claims “All cosmotologists are atheists”.

2)  Atheist scientists claim, “It is scientifically impossible to believe that a mystical God created life”.  I love how they need to throw a ‘mythical’ or ‘mystical’ or other epitaph before the word, “God”.  Again, poor debating style.  They load their statement with a falsehood.  I don’t believe a ‘mythical’ God created earth either.  I believe the actual God created the earth.   So can we please start there?  So, a God cannot, scientifically, create life, huh?  Why is that?  They will say: ” There is no proof of a God. ”  So I want to ask, “If we could prove the existence of God, then could He create life?”  They would probably say, “No”.  “Why not? “I would ask.  They would be stumped there.  Probably they’d flounce away by then or if they were brave enough to stay, they might say, “Because a mythical being can’t create anything” and ’round and ’round we go.   Because the truth of it is this:  if God’s existence could be proved, then of course He could create life.   Why do I say this?

Dr. J. Craig Venter Invents First Self Replicating Cell

Because MAN is attempting to create life right now, as we speak! Oh, they desperately seek it.  The government seeks it.   They have programs upon programs to invent life. They expect to succeed in ten years time! They have already created a synthetic, self replicating cell.  Cloning is just one iteration. Ripping eggs of one animal apart and filling it with the DNA of another animal, trying to create viable DNA from non-living substances- you name it, they have it in a test tube.

Therefore, if MAN believes he can create life, then he must believe any other intelligent life form could create life.  Even our life.   If they don’t believe this, then they are simply illogical.

So, it all hinges on proving the existence of God, does it not?

To prove His existence, we must define Him first. God is a super intelligent being. He can create life. In many variations. In fact, He is so adept in the creation of life, that He actually created mankind and the universe as we know it. He is not bound to live on this earth.  How could he live on the very thing he created?  Where did he live before that?  He CREATED TIME.  Thus, he is not bound by time.   He created all the physical laws.  Thus, he is not bound by any of the physical laws.  He can stand outside his creations of time, matter, space & physical laws and observe the WHOLE- as a potter can observe his whole pot.   He can travel through time & space easily. He is a poet, a lover, an artist. He is highly advanced. He can travel, unseen, through our world. He can communicate directly to people’s minds. He can be the boss of other advanced beings. In fact, He can be the boss of the entire universe or however many universes there might be. He has the technology and knowledge to do and make things mankind cannot even fathom yet. That is Who we are looking for.

Sound about right? I know there is more, but let’s just leave it at that.  Atheists, since this is our belief, you really can’t question it. As we believe in God, He is ours to define to you so that you can understand what we are trying to prove.

SETI Dishes Looking For God

Now, let’s see…I want to look into this question of intelligent life from other planets. What are those big cone/dishes those crazy scientists at the SETI Institute are pointing up into space? Are those multi-billion-dollar-per-dishes looking for intelligent life? Yes? Well, how will they know they have found intelligent life?

“The program, located on U.S. Forest Service land near Mount Lassen, uses telescopes to listen for anything out of the ordinary — a numerical sequence of “beeps,” say, or crackly dialogue from an alien version of a disembodied “Charlie” talking to his “Angels.” The entire program was set up to prove what once seemed unthinkable: In the universe, we are not alone.”

Dots? Beeps? Numerical Sequences? You mean numerical sequences are not the norm? Orderly things don’t normally exist in the universe?  No?   Hmmm…. looking for signs of intelligent life by looking for very orderly things…. hmmm…. we look for orderly things because they are different than the ‘natural’ state of space which is chaos… hmmm… orderly things point to intended design…hmmmm… intended design points to intelligence….. hmmmm…. intelligence points to intelligent beings. Got it!

BUT THE ORDERLY LIFE & SYSTEMS ON EARTH ARE A RESULT OF NATURAL CHAOS, NOT INTELLIGENT DESIGN!!

But let’s leave that bit of hypocrisy, self delusion and faulty logic for now.

Atheist Version of Good Aliens

We are focusing on proving God’s existence, right? Ok, so let’s examine this extra terrestrial life these big dishes and an enormous cadre of scientists are looking for, shall we? Clearly, though these scientists have never had one ounce of proof that they exist, they believe so whole heartedly in their existence that they have devoted their entire lives to finding them.  In fact, the UN has recently hired Mazlan Othman, a Malaysian astrophysicist, to be the very first ambassador to greet these aliens not if, but when, they make contact.  The Vatican (its own legal government) has also been making similar preparations.   They know these creatures are technologically advanced (why do they assume this?). They can visit our planet, unseen. They can make themselves invisible through cloaking technology (which we, humans, have already invented). They can build ships that travel faster than the speed of light and can cross the expanses of space easily.  They have probably have mastered time travel. They can make things that humans can’t even imagine today. They can be very powerful. They could be part of a universal political system with leaders and followers. It follows that some of these life forms can mean us good and some of these life forms can mean us ill. These beings could have a political agenda of which we may be a part.  It is possible that one type of being can actually be in charge of these other beings. And it is possible that a single one entity can be the king of all the other creatures.

Christian Version of A Good Extra-Terrestrial

Why, aren’t we on the same page with this thing?  You call them aliens or extra terrestrial beings.  We call them angels, demons and God.  Why is the term “alien” any more legitimate than our term, “God”?  Or do lowly human scientists get to say just how smart and powerful these aliens could be?  Do we, lowly humans, know what the actual capabilities of these extraterrestrial beings are?  Of course not!  Or must their inventions only be as technologically advanced as we can comprehend them to be?  Of course not!  Is it possible that these extra-terrestrials have advanced to the point of life creation?  Of course!  If lowly human scientists believe life creation is in their grasp, then these wonders called extra-terrestrial life forms must certainly have attained that knowledge long ago.    To our human scientists, the sky’s the limit for these extra terrestrial beings.  For us God lovers, the sky’s the limit on His technical abilities.

They believe in something that has not been proven yet.  We believe in something that has not been proven yet.

Christian Version of an Evil Alien

Scientists’ belief in aliens has absolutely no more validity than our belief in a God, angels and demons.  And yet, those scientists will call us ignorant and superstitious.  Though they will never say this, they absolutely don’t want to believe in a God.  Why?  Because they absolutely, in their arrogance, refuse to believe that they could actually be a creature of another Being’s science.  Oh, the creatures they eventually create from test tubes will be their creatures.  But they can not be someone else’s creation.   The fact that this lacks all the logic that they, themselves, have put forward is why they must eventually flounce from the room.    Most of them have not even finished this article, because they saw where it was going.

So, if you can scientifically claim the existence of aliens, then I can equally and as scientifically claim the existence of God.  If aliens exist, then God exists.  There is no other logical option.

Atheist Version of Evil Alien

So there.

Note:  This is the second promised article in my series of six called, “Why Evolution Makes No Sense Today”.

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51 comments

  1. Evolution is often misappropriated by atheists and theists alike. It is not a moral, but a mechanism. The theory does not imbue moral judgements on humans, animals, or deity; it is simply the amalgamation of observed phenomena in the progeny of life. The mechanism of the progeny of humans does not give or take away the moral responsibility and uniqueness of humans. God is who imbues humans with those qualities and the desire to seek Him. One can (and many, including myself, do) believe in God and evolution. If God Created using the process we call evolution (as our current understanding seems to affirm), then evolution, like all life, is a very intelligent design.

    Just some food for thought.

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    • Daniel, I totally agree with you. I have zero problem if God used the process of evolution to create us. None at all. Why should I? However, that being said, this theory has so much that is unproven that I fail to see it as a valid scientific conclusion at all. Just my point of view.

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  2. My biggest problem with so-called evolution is its proposition that life simply happened by “accident.” The proponents of this theory cannot begin to explain the origin of INFORMATION, which, in the form of DNA, is necessary to the formation of life. Besides, every biologist knows that whenever a mutation occurs, information is lost, not gained. So to propose that life began simple and evolved into more complex forms is not just illogical, it is impossible!

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    • What makes me laugh is that the very people who propose these most ILLOGICAL theories say that WE only want to believe what we want. It is totally the other way around. I would be just as offended if people walked around strenuously saying the earth was flat. Evolution, speciation, is simple less PROBABLE than Intelligent Design! AND there appears to be more evidence for intelligent design than ‘it all just happened’. NOTHING is life shows that chaos, explosions, etc.. result spontaneously into ORDER. In fact, all experience in real life show the opposite to be true. That all things, left to themselves, DEGRADE. But… we are the ones who hate logic and science, right?

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  3. A short response to Tanzalone, you said Muslims claim that Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Where precisely do you get that? I want to agree with shortie, muslims will never agree that true salvation came from Isaac and Jacobic lines; if they agree, it is like nailing their own coffin, but they forgot that, Ishmael the progenitor of Islam was indeed blessed but was cast out not to be an inheritor of the COVENANT(see Genesis 21: 10-13) (Gen 17: 17-21).
    Tanzalone also said stories of the old Testament are the same as those in the Quran, i beg to differ on this point, if you have really read both books you would have used SIMILAR instead of SAME. for instance compare the flood story of the Bible and that of the Quran you will see a vast difference; so also is the story of Joseph. So, they are not the SAME, as long as differences exist.
    My final submission is, one has to have an open mind to contribute to such a debate, you dont have to be monofocal if you want to know the TRUTH.
    Thanks
    Jajua K

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  4. When it is plainly stated that jews would be obliterated from the record, why would we be suprised there is no record? When we are finding the mask of Agmannon, and the foundations to the horse of Troy, and other artifacts long assumed to be legend, when we will learn that we are essentially the same inquisative, fact finding species that existed at the time these reciords were created. If it was all a hoax, it would have dissappeared a long time ago as every other hoax has. Give deference to the ancients, they had a point.

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  5. The “BioLogos” movement (and myself) share your belief and faith in the creator God and his son Jesus Christ. However, as many people, kind and not-so-kind, have stated here, there are too many scientific FACTS that render a LITERAL interpretation of the Bible obsolete. I personally believe that God created the universe and everything in it over billions of years. One scientific FACT: we share 99% of our DNA with Chimpanzees. Could the “Dust” used to create Adam (see Genesis)be “genetic material”? Could the “Sons of God” (also mentioned in Genesis) refer to the ancient Pagan gods worshipped by our ancestors or even refer to the modern interpretation of Aliens?
    I also believe that in most cases, the Bible and science walk hand-in-hand and that God created science. We were created to have enquiring minds and there is nothing wrong with structured healthy debate in peace and love. On this basis, we can agree to disagree.
    May God bless you and guide you.

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      • “The day an ARAB says that allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the day I promise to stop writing. lol!”
        These are your words, all you have to do is a cursory search of “Abrahamic religions” and you will see that yes these people do indeed claim that Allah is the God Abraham Isaac and Jacob you nitwit! Islam and Christianity are both offshoots of Judaism and no amount of denial will change that fact. As a matter of fact the Quran has all the same stories from the old testament. You can ban me from your page and delete all my posts but the fact remains you have no honor.

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      • Oh, really. please provide that link! What a joker. No Arab on the EARTH will recognize God as the God of Isaac. Their ANCESTOR, Ishmael was thrown out of Abraham’s tent because of Sarah, Isaac’s mother. They HATED the Jews since then. God specifically denied a covenant with Ishmael and made a POINT of establishing it through Isaac & Jacob. He made that CLEAR. By the time Jacob came around, Ismael was long gone- the Arabs had embarked on a new god. No Arab would admit that God was a JEWISH God. No way, no how. They only acknowledge the God of Abraham- and that is not the great I AM. Allah is a creation of their own. YOU do your research. I ban so-called atheists because you have NO intention of good- only bad. sorry.

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    • A literal interpretation of the Bible is not obsolete. The argument of scientific “fact” is based on the understandable (yet naive ) assumption that science is: 1. infallible 2. honest
      Neither of these is likely. We live in a fallen world, and our battle is with the “prince of the power of the air”. Why would we assume he would fight fair? Many scientists believe and have proof of a “young earth”, dinosaurs living at the same time as man, and a cataclysmic flood being responsible for most of what popular science credits to an ice age. Don’t expect their findings to be published, though. They are ridiculed and discredited at every turn. God proves Himself every day to those who are willing to see, as He has stated in His word. Jesus gave us our marching orders in the Great Commission, and while these discussions are informative, they are a prelude to the real issue and goal, the spread of the gospel. Never think for a moment that convincing someone of any of these peripheral issues will bring them to Christ. Still, being conversant in real science (all knowledge is a gift from God) is a good thing, and increases our appreciation for our Creator.

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    • MOP, they find it so comical that they come (in droves) to my page, enraged, frothing from theie mouths and calling me all sorts of descriptive names. I delete at least 95% of what I get from those ‘jokers’. Seems to me that if this was such a joke, people like you would not even bother to visit. But you do. And they do. And guess who is the one laughing? ;-D

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  6. An athiest once asked me if i have seen God, if yes, let me tell him God’s colour, the best answer i could give him was to answer him with a question: have you seen the wind, if yes, tell me the colour? Here is my reason for bringing this, we cannot see God but we can see his actions e.g miracles, so is the wind we cannot see it but can see its action on trees. The atheist was stuck. He cannot tell me the colour of the wind, my final submission was if you believe the existence of wind though you cannot see it or know its colour, then you must believe in the existence of God though you cannot see him or know his colour.

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  7. Hi marriagecoach1, thanks for your reply.

    You write:
    “Yes the history of science is riddled with inaccuracies. Remember, it was not that long ago relatively speaking that people theorized that the earth was flat. If you read Genesis in the bible, it correctly states the creation order.”

    Yes, it was the Orthodox Church throughout the Dark Ages and somewhat after that perpetuated the “Flat Earth.” theory. It was early scientists who figured out it was a sphere…and also what the diameter was, which was extraordinary when you consider all he had for instruments was 2 sticks. (two different guys here)

    The story of Genesis has the plants, which require sunlight to survive, being created the day before the sun…for 1 day this is no problem, but if you subscribe to the Day-Age theory then all the plants would be dead. Also Genesis has two stories of Adam and Eve. 1 is where Adam and Eve are created in the beginning and 1 where they are created on the last day. They were rather crudely stitched together by the redactors in Babylon.

    You write:
    “Some people try and refute the Red Sea Parting and that it was really very shallow allowing the Jews to escape. That takes an even bigger leap of faith to understand how all of Pharohs men and horses all drowned in a few inches of water.”

    The Red Sea parting and the whole Exodus story has been refuted by two archaeologists in Israel. According to them there never was a time when the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt, a million +- of them never crossed the Red Sea or wandered the Sinai desert for forty years and witness the manna from heaven, the quails, or the water flowing from rocks, etc.. Joshua and his crew did not blow down the walls of Jericho or kill the king in the town of Ai, they were already deserted by the time recorded in the Bible.

    Archaeologists have been looking for over a hundred years for any evidence in the desert of a million people crossing it at one time…it isn’t there. Also there is no evidence to be found in Egyptian writing for a million Hebrews living there and suddenly leaving. Boy, that would really make the tax collectors mad. 🙂

    A large number of Biblical scholars believe Moses was a mythical person and that the Pentateuch was written by at least 3, maybe 4 different people and was probably penned near the time of, or after the Hebrew exile in Babylon…800-500 +- BC.

    Regarding the Red Sea and Egypt and Exodus story Google the name Ze’ev Herzog His page in Wikipedia is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze'ev_Herzog

    His CV can be found here: http://www.tau.ac.il/humanities/archaeology/directory/dir_zeev_herzog.html

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    • Hey Word
      You believe in scientists, fine that is your choice. You are kidding of course, there would be no evidence some 5,000 years later. I have seen too many scientists who were wrong and continue to be wrong. I believe the bible and if I am wrong, I am risking nothing. You rejecting God, if you are wrong, you are risking everything.
      I will stand on my faith and blessings on you
      John

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      • Hi Marriagecoach1, thanks for writing back.

        Actually the date for the mythical Exodus is in the neighborhood of 3400 years ago. Sites that are ten, fifteen, twenty thousand years and older are doable with today’s modern methods and tools.

        When the modern Israeli government controlled the Sinai in the 1960’s and 1970’s there were government sponsored digs all over the place and they found evidence of many small camps that preceded the supposed time, and they found stuff from after the time, but nothing else and certainly no evidence of 1,000,000 souls wandering.

        Kadesh Barnea where the Israelites purportedly spent most of the 40 years has been thoroughly sifted and no sign from it either. Follow part of the story here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadesh_%28Israel%29

        Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia about the Exodus:
        The archaeological evidence of the largely indigenous origins of Israel is “overwhelming,” and leaves “no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness.”[21] For this reason, most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as “a fruitless pursuit.”

        [22] A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[18] and it has become increasingly clear that Iron Age Israel – the kingdoms of Judah and Israel – has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[23][24] the culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the “Israelite” villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[25]

        Here’s the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

        Also remember there is no Egyptian data of any kind that backs up the Biblical writings.

        Its pretty safe to say the story is purely mythical.

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    • All you have presented as evidence is the OPINIONS of so-called experts. The fact is, Mt. Sinai, the Red Sea (Yom Suf) crossing has been found, complete with wrecked, coral encrusted chariot cabs and wheels. Sodom and Gomorrah have also been located including sulfur encrusted walls. Look it up. You are wrong on all accounts, thewordofme!

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  8. “They can visit our planet, unseen. They can make themselves invisible through cloaking technology (which we, humans, have already invented). They can build ships that travel faster than the speed of light and can cross the expanses of space easily. They have probably have mastered time travel. ”

    I’ll give you cloaking, because humans are on the verge of developing some cloaking mechanisms, but the rest of this is just unverified assertion of fact. In fact, many physicists believe that FTL travel is impossible, and that the amount of energy that would be needed for any type of time travel we can currently speculate on, if it is possible at all (another disputed point), would be prohibitive if not practically impossible.

    Here is a *great* link to a discussion on time travel: http://on.io9.com/iUJWjM

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  9. “Dots? Beeps? Numerical Sequences? You mean numerical sequences are not the norm? Orderly things don’t normally exist in the universe? No? Hmmm…. looking for signs of intelligent life by looking for very orderly things…. hmmm…. we look for orderly things because they are different than the ‘natural’ state of space which is chaos… hmmm… orderly things point to intended design…hmmmm… intended design points to intelligence….. hmmmm…. intelligence points to intelligent beings. Got it!”

    There is a lot of order in the universe, the primary challenge SETI has is differentiating between the order that occurs naturally and the order that would come from a directed intelligence. So when a scientist sees what looks like rhythmic pulses along a certain wavelength in the range that might be generated by a civilization, they go about the process of trying to verify it by eliminating all other possibilities in that scan range that provide that type of ordered output. So far, no verified signals of directed intelligence have been found, but the way you characterize it is not accurate by saying the universe is chaos and SETI is only looking for order in chaos. They are looking for directed order instead of natural order.

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  10. ” A series of mutations (by definition ‘rare’, ‘not normal’, and ‘mistake’) that happened over and over and over again and somehow ‘just drove accidentally toward’ intelligent life.”

    This is a gross misunderstanding of the mechanism of evolution, as there is nothing accidental about natural selection. Selection does not always favor the more intelligent species, but over the course of hundreds of millions of years of biodiversity arising from evolutionary processes you’re definitely going to see some pockets where intelligence is higher than average.

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  11. Hello again Short Little Rebel, thank you for your reply.

    Those older (c.200,000 BC) hominids are also classified as Homo-sapiens-sapiens–i.e. us, and yes is was about 50,000 BC when our intelligence seemed to pick up. There are some linguists who believe it was then that human’s invented/implemented language and were able to pass on knowledge much quicker and easier.

    The search for extra-terrestrial PLANETS (by the Kepler space observatory) is currently being run by NASA and JPL and others and does have tax-payer funding. I can imagine the US government having a national security issue with aliens, and wants to know what’s going on out there…who knows. 🙂

    In 1992, the U.S. government funded an operational SETI program, in the form of the NASA Microwave Observing Program (MOP). MOP was planned as a long-term effort to conduct a general survey of the sky and also carry out targeted searches of 800 specific nearby stars.

    MOP drew the attention of the U.S. Congress, where the program was ridiculed [1] and canceled a year after its start. SETI advocates continued without government funding, and in 1995 the nonprofit SETI Institute of Mountain View, California resurrected the MOP program under the name of Project “Phoenix”, backed by private sources of funding. This is where I got the following line: “The Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence is privately funded now and has been since the early nineties.”

    However you are right, there is still some (was…not anymore) small funding from the NSF that I missed. [2] The NSF was funded last year at around 6.9 billion dollars. From this budget they fund science and engineering projects in all fifty states and 2,000 universities and institutions…so I don’t believe SETI was getting billions of dollars in funding. From what I understand their 2011 budget was 2.5 million dollars [3]…some of which came from the California University they are connected with, as well as NSF.

    I just found this in Wikipedia: “Funding for SETI Institute programs comes from a variety of sources. Contrary to popular belief, no government funds are allocated for its SETI searches – these are financed entirely by private contributions. Other astrobiology research at the SETI Institute may be funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation, or other grants and donations.” ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI_Institute” It seems that no government funds are used on searching for aliens if one is to believe this.

    Sorry if my credentials are lacking, but what science I am putting forth here is commonly accepted science in all colleges and universities around the world. Among mainline scientists and researchers it is little challenged. I am not proposing anything new…the only thing I am doing is cross referencing the science with written Biblical assertions. Our understanding of the old times and people and civilizations from the Bible is not meshing with the facts being found out by science.

    A high school student could do what I have done. If the Bible tells me that the Tower of Babel happened in a certain timeline and I know what I know about human populations and geography–there is a BIG disconnect. I know the human history as described by science is correct and can be proven…the Bible (Old Testament primarily) I know was written a few thousand years ago by goat-herders who believed in magic, and apparently God forgot to let them in on the fact that the world was BIG and already hugely populated.

    You see what is happening here is that as the Bible is more and more proven wrong…large questions arise about the reality of God. If His book is proven no longer a source of real information that a God would know, what would you do?

    I started this journey just questioning a few stories that didn’t sound right, and what I have found and deduced just blows my mind. With respect, If one just accepts the entire PR and dogma the churches promote, and never question anything, you will be exactly where you are now. At one point in my life I was brainwashed and then I started questioning. Amazing how it feels to find actual truth.

    **************************************
    [1]”Ear to the Universe Is Plugged by Budget Cutters”. The New York Times. October 7, 1993. Retrieved June 7, 2011. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/07/us/ear-to-the-universe-is-plugged-by-budget-cutters.html?pagewanted=1/

    [2] The National Science foundation. Retrieved June 7, 2011 http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=119562

    [3] Hot air http://hotair.com/archives/2011/04/29/seti-shutters-allen-array-over-funding-shortfall/ Retrieved June 7, 2011

    Peace,
    twom / Bill

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  12. Scientists have stated (some scientists, not a majority) that CO2 is responsible in the 1 degree increase in the world wide temp increase. They posit that CO2 will stay in the atmosphere for 100 years. Not unless they repeal the law of gravity because CO2 is 152% heavier than air and sinks to the ground when it is released.

    Scienitists base their claims on carbon dating ( a highly imprecise dating method). We have oral history which is recognized in many cultures inclluding the aborigines which was transcribed in the bible.

    Sorrry for the broken up response, but there was trouble on the site which froze me out.

    Do not depend on science as your god, because their history is rife with inaccuracies.
    John

    Like

    • @john- I haven’t put much research into this topic (science debunking bibilical time lines), but I have wondered about a couple things. First, the Bible seems to imply much longer life spans than current life spans. Even implying that some individuals lived up to 1000 years. To me, that could be possible. Even today, no one really knows why or how we age. I wonder if that has anything to do with supposed problems with biblical timelines and ‘science’ timelines. Further, ‘science’ timelines always say that ‘man’ lived 500,000 years ago. The only trouble is that they are including neanterthals and every ‘homo-…” in that description. Today’s version of homosapiens have only been estimated to be on earth for 50,000 years. Like I said, I haven’t done the research on this, but it sounds like an interesting pursuit. That being said, it really has nothing to do with my article.

      Like

  13. Hey Bill:
    You are duped by scientists. Let me tell you that the history of scientists is RIDDLED with downright inaccuracies sworn to be truth at the time. Let us go back to the time of Galileo who was widley persecuted because he dared to state that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the reverse. He invented the scientific method to correct scienctists.

    There is a hospital dedicated to Sister Kenny. She was not a nun but an Australian physical therapists who stood medical science on its head when she stated that doctors were wrong for putting patients in an iron lung to treat polio. She said that range of motioni exercises where the best treatment. She was unviversally reviled in the medical community and yet she ultimately proved correct.

    Scientists have said that CO2 is responsi

    Like

    • Galileo was right of course and Christianity was wrong. Yes many scientists have been proven wrong, however one of the nice things about science is that it WILL correct itself.

      Like

      • Hey Word
        Yes the history of science is riddled with inaccuracies. Remember, it was not that long ago
        relatively speaking that people theorized that the earth was flat. If you read Genesis in the bible, it correctly
        states the creation order.

        Some people try and refute the Red Sea Parting and that it was really very shallow
        allowing the Jews to escape. That takes an even bigger leap of faith to understand how
        all of Pharohs men and horses all drowned in a few inches of water.

        John Wilder

        Like

  14. Hey Bill:
    You are duped by scientists. Let me tell you that the history of scientists is RIDDLED with downright inaccuracies sworn to be truth at the time. Let us go back to the time of Galileo who was widley persecuted because he dared to state that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the reverse. He invented the scientific method to correct scienctists.

    There is a hospital dedicated to Sister Kenny. She was not a nun but an Australian physical therapists who stood medical science on its head when she stated that doctors were wrong for putting patients in an iron lung to treat polio. She said that range of motioni exercises where the best treatment. She was unviversally reviled in the medical community and yet she ultimately proved correct.

    Scient

    Like

  15. Hi Short Little Rebel, thank you for your kind reply.

    Of course there may be some people who believe in “super intelligent extra-terrestrial life” and some of them may be scientists, but not ALL of the scientists do. There is an equal chance that any intelligent life-forms we learn of, are on our level or below. We don’t at this point know IF there is any other intelligence “out there.” It is simply recognized by most that there is a chance for it.

    The speed of light has been recognized by scientists for a hundred + – years now as the universes speed limit. Ever since Einstein hatched the theory of relativity…which has been proven over and over again, we have understood the limits. At this point in time it looks like that speed limit stands, as there is not enough energy in the universe to exceed it. A point of clarification; we humans will not exceed this speed, nature, we think, may have exceeded this limit in the very distant past.

    I did not put in any references or sources because all of the science behind the stuff I mentioned is taught in college and I was just starting a dialogue.

    Humans such as us (Homo-sapiens-sapiens) have been on earth at least 200,000 years. That is science talking.

    The Bibles depiction of Adam and Eve and events unfolding after them cannot work with that large amount of time. This is the consequence of that (among other) scientific finding…therefore Adam and Eve as portrayed in the Bible is no doubt a non-event. This is me (and others) interpolating the consequences behind that 200,000 year timeline.

    As for Noah’s flood it was first doubted by naturalists in the 1600’s and ever since that time scientific evidence has consistently shown that there has never been a time in the last 100,000,000 years when the earth was entirely covered with water.

    The Tower of Babel (ToB) story is easily dismissed as well. Most Christian denominations place the ToB story about two to three hundred years after Noah’s flood…that works out to around 2000 BC. We know for a fact that humans were already spread ALL over the planet. North and South America was already populated by around 13,000 BC. I really doubt that those people were just grunting at each other. Also remember that humanity became literate (writing) around 3100 BC and there was already more than one language at that time. Egypt, who was almost next door to the plains of Shinar, had their own written language at the 2000 BC mark and long before…Oh and also they had no flood stories or any physical or archaeological evidence for a giant flood.

    At the 2,000 BC year marker there were civilizations in China, Japan, Egypt, most of remaining Africa, India, Pakistan (high civilization like Egypt), Europe, All around the Mediterranean, most of Asia, Australia, the Pacific Islands, and North and South America. All the continents, with the exception of Antarctica, had long been settled by humans. All of this information can be found in no more than a couple of college textbooks and I doubt if any more than one in a thousand scientists question any of it.

    So the idea that God came down from heaven (or wherever He hangs out 🙂 ) somewhere around 2,000 BC and mangled mankind’s one and only language is just plain silly.

    If you will Google the subject “pottery” and surf there a little while you will find that the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans were making pottery as far back as 16,000 to 18,000 years ago. Sumeria and the Mesopotamian and Mediterranean area discovered pottery around 4,000 BC to 8,000 BC. These facts alone shatter the Old Testament stories, and NONE of these things are my personal opinions…all of the things I have written about here are being taught in colleges and universities all over the world…even religiously funded colleges.

    Could you explain to me where my logic is faulty please?

    Thank you.
    I am enjoying the conversation.

    Twom / Bill

    Like

    • There are not just ‘some’ scientists, but thousands of them looking for extra-terrestrial life- the US government is looking too- they are the ones funding it. Please follow the link in my article. As for the speed of light, well, we will have to disagree. it is known to be a current limit. But no one believes it can never be broken. I certainly don’t. You need to look more closely at homo-sapiens to get the right number of years (not that it is really relevant)- ‘science’ says that it has been about 50,000 years since homo-sapiens began to ‘act’ like modern man -ie, self awareness, civilization, etc. To me, all those other versions of ‘homo-?’ don’t count as ‘man’. Especially since speciation has never been proved.

      As for your bible statements, I’m afraid I can’t really take you seriously. You have provided no sources and you lack any credentials to speak alone on that subject. My article is not centered on whether or not ‘science’ proves the Bible time line to be correct or incorrect. This is a huge subject that requires it’s own blog article. At this point, I’m not focused on that area. As for you, if you care to do studies in this area and write a blog, correctly referenced, and allow people to comment, I’d be glad to read it.

      Like

    • All of your statements, and most of modern science’s, for that matter, are based upon the PRESUMPTION that the earth’s atmosphere, the solar system, and the entire universe, has always been just as it is now. There is no proof of this. Therefore, all of science’s dating methods are flawed and unreliable. So many of science’s conclusions are based on presumptions that are unprovable, is it wise to assume their conclusions are reliable?

      Like

  16. I’m a believer in theistic evolution. God’s plan was for life to evolve. He designed it to be this way. This is much different than to say that man is the descendant of apes. The difference between man and any animal is that God breathed a soul into Adam, our first ancestor, and our mother Eve passed it down.

    You really have to take a deep look at scripture to understand what the 1st chapter of Genesis says…

    Like

    • Hi Anonymous,
      That is why I point to Speciation when I address evolution. Speciation is the aspect of evolution that basically says we evolved from apes. Which many Christians wouldn’t have a problem with. As a scientist, I have a problem with the fact that evolution & speciation are referred to in almost every book as FACT when it is not. The Christian part of me is not the problem there. The trouble comes because these people have an AGENDA behind this basic lie. They hope to actually convince people that “if we come from apes, we are not made by GOD”. Technically, this is not a logical conclusion, but most people are not technical. The leap is made easily. That is my problem. The conclusion THEY wish to make. To me, personally, if God decided to use a process similar to evolution to create the physical MAN, why would I care? I doesn’t affect my religion at all.

      Like

  17. Hi Short Little Rebel, love your “handle”

    I know a few scientists and their view is; yes, it’s possible for there to be advanced civilizations out there in our universe, but unlikely they are traveling amongst the stars…our present understanding of the laws of physics leaves us to believe the speed of light is impossible for us, or any other culture, to attain.

    As far as UFO’s go, there is no valid evidence that can be examined and tested, so at this point most scientists don’t believe they are a real proven phenomena.

    I don’t think any scientists believe in the supernatural/magical realm…of course this would also apply to witches, demons, angels, devils, etc., simply because these things require magic, and we all know there is no magic operating in our world.

    Interesting thing about witches, the Christian Church in the good old “Dark Ages” killed many, many thousands (some say millions) of poor people accused of being witches, until they finally realized that there wasn’t actually any such thing as witchcraft.

    Interesting things coming out of astronomical science lately. A new specialized satellite is sending information back to earth seeming to say there are as many as 50 billion planets in our galaxy alone that have the potential to support biological life…imagine that…50 billion in our galaxy, and there are at least 200 (probably more) billion galaxies out there in our universe. It’s just possible that life is not so special that earth alone has it.

    Science answers a lot of questions and yes it has a long way to go, and there will probably be some things it can never answer, but sciences explanation of things that the Bible used to be an authority on just keeps on going…and proving the Bible wrong.

    We know that humans have been roaming the earth for around 200,000 years. This has been proven by archaeology, paleontology, and DNA– this pretty much disproves Adam and Eve and “original sin.” We know there was never a Noachian flood or Tower of Babel or Exodus and subsequent parting of the Red Sea. The Old Testament is mostly all mythical dreams of desert goat-herders; an attempt by the ancient writers to establish a racial genesis and foundational mythos. So much of it is just provably wrong.

    Of course Paul had no idea that humans would eventually figure out all of the things we have, so he used the Old Testament to invent Christianity and the concept of original sin and turned a Jewish teacher/rabbi into a new religion and never looked back.

    Like all religions, Christianity is built on myth and misdirection and in lots of cases-outright lies. Like all Christian religious people, you just deny the reality of what science is telling us and make up apologia to explain and lead astray the unsuspecting mortal.

    Your (and everyone else’s) God cannot be proven and I predict He/She/It will never be. The concept of God is purely a human invention…He/She/It is no more real than Scientology’s mythical “Thetans”

    Like

    • @ Word of Me. I don’t know what to say. You are incorrect to say that scientists don’t believe in super intelligent extra-terrestrial life. No one thinks that the speed of light is the fastest things can go. It is a limit we are bound to TODAY. But no scientist worth his/her weight believes we can’t get past that. As for your analysis on science proving the Bible ‘wrong’, well, I don’t want to be rude, but it is nothing more than a bunch of personal opinions backed by nothing. You make such giant leaps without any references or sources or even sound logic. I can’t take you seriously.

      Like

      • “No one thinks that the speed of light is the fastest things can go.”

        Except, you know, Albert Einstein. http://on.io9.com/k89m6P

        “Albert Einstein predicted long ago that faster-than-light travel was impossible. More specifically, he said the laws of physics forbade the observation of any speed faster than that constant 299,792,458 meters per second — no matter how great the energy involved. Einstein’s postulate holds true for any reference frame within the fabric of the space-time continuum we’re used to. So that means the speed of light’s the absolute limit for any object.”

        You can dig through the io9 link I provided to Einstein’s original paper.

        From Wikipedia on Faster Than Light travel:
        “General relativity also agrees that any technique for faster-than-light travel could also be used for time travel. This raises problems with causality. Many physicists believe that the above phenomena are in fact impossible, and that future theories of gravity will prohibit them.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_than_light#cite_ref-29

        Disagree with it if you want, but don’t say I didn’t back it.

        Like

    • Like so many atheists you have made yourself into your own little god and have the arrogance to believe your own bullshit. There are a whole lot of very intelligent christians out there. Just becuase you are intelligent does not make you right.

      John Wilder

      Like

      • Hello marriagecoach, thanks for your reply.

        You write:
        “Like so many atheists you have made yourself into your own little god and have the arrogance to believe your own bullshit. There are a whole lot of very intelligent christians out there. Just becuase you are intelligent does not make you right.”

        I’m sorry sir, I do not consider myself a god of any sort, big or little.

        The b_llsh_t (sorry, I don’t like to cuss) you are referring to is not coming originally from me…it is from science. I only learn from scientists and pass on the information. Yes, I do believe it because it can be tested and researched and is reviewed by experts in the field.

        I recognize the fact that there are very many intelligent Christians out there just as there are very many intelligent Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, and Muslims out there. Intelligence alone does not make them right and the exclusive holder of the key of knowledge.

        In the last hundred or so years mankind has seen an explosion of knowledge, and particularly in the last 30 years, new tools and methods of inquiry have advanced our understanding of our world and our lives tremendously.

        Religion, on the other hand, is supposed to be right from the very start, after all God is supposed to be behind it. Well science is disproving lots of stuff in the Bible…and the science is not wrong. Science does NOT have a secret conspiratorial network that is dedicated to proving the Bible and the Christian religion wrong. Science just goes about their business and researches whatever they are working on. Sometimes they discover something that relates to religion in some way…it is not guided to prove religion wrong. There is no conspiracy, and the facts just keep piling up against the bible as a work of fact.

        Nice “Talking” to you marriagecoach.

        twom / Bill

        Like

  18. Good! 3 encores and a Palm Leaf Cluster!
    You’ve blown enough holes in the usual hand-outs to make them useful colanders…and a very nice piece of writing, too.

    Of course, some of the spalpeens don’t believe in aliens, either so I guess they’re still standing for the moment. In mid-air, though.
    My suspicion as to why such folk can’t accept God goes right back to Lucifer, who couldn’t either. If you acknowledge God; you are stuck with His rules. The only way to avoid His rules is to somehow get rid of the rule-giver. God is unacceptable when we put ourselves into His place…leaving no recourse but denial. As you say, they don’t want to know or maybe more like: They can’t afford to know.

    Like

  19. Abolutely Marvelous. I’ve never seen more truth in a single article. I don’t now and never will co-exist with evolution. It isn’t logical!

    Mother nature worship is the utimate control mechanism. I believe that all other religions including the muslims will be forcefully irradicated by this new one world order religion. The play acting by the most powerful people on earth to indorse the koran as a holy book is just a prelude to their actual intentions toward christians and muslims.

    Like

    • Thanks, John. But I give the credit to God. He truly inspired me with this one. I started with some arguments that I have mulled over for years. But then I wasn’t sure how to proceed. But as I wrote, I truly felt Divine inspiration.

      Like

      • Hey Shortie
        I understand divine inspiration. I too have felt it. It was the strongest when I wrote an extensive bible study on abortion and raised the funds to send it to all 35,000 SBC churches. At one time they were on record by resolution as being pro choice. I got them to change and they have never gone back.

        Blessings
        John

        Like

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